Second Coming of Jesus Study Archive

the Fall of Jerusalem was, in the fullest sense, the Second Advent of the Son of Man which was primarily contemplated by the earliest voices of prophecy

 

The “Second Coming” of Jesus
Associated with the End of Jerusalem in A.D.70

SEE ALSO:

ADVOCATES FOR “AD70 WAS JUST A COMING OF CHRIST”

  • BROWN, ALEXANDER, of Aberdeen. ” The Great Day of the Lord.”
  • BROWN, DAVID (1858) “Christ’s Second Coming: Will It Be Premillennial?”
  • CLARKE, ADAM (1828)
  • COWLES, HENRY, of Oberlin, U.S.A. “The Revelation of John.”
  • EDWARDS, JONATHAN “Miscellany 1199”
  • FARRAR, FREDERIC, W. (1882) “The Early Days of Christianity.”
  • GENTRY, KENNETH “Before Jerusalem Fell”
  • GILL, JOHN (1796) “Body of Practical Divinity”
  • GOODHART, CHARLES ALFRED. (1891) “The Christian’s Inheritance.”
  • GROTIUS, HUGO. (1644) “Annotations.”
  • HAMMOND, HENRY. (1653) “Annotations.”
  • HARRIS, J. TINDALL. “The Writings of the Apostle John.”
  • HOOPER, JOSEPH, of Bridgewater.
  • KING, ALEXANDER. “The Cry of Christendom for a Divine Eirenikon.”
  • LEE,  F.N.
  • MACKNIGHT, JAMES
  • MAURICE, F. D. (1861) “The Apocalypse.”
  • MAURO, PHILIP.
  • MURRAY, JAMES, of Torquay.
  • MURRAY, J. O. F. (1893) in the Cambridge ” Companion to the Bible.”
  • NEWTON,THOMAS (1754) “Dissertations on the Prophecies.”
  • NISBETT, NEHEMIAH (1802) “The Triumphs of Christianity over Infidelity displayed”
  • PECKINS, W. N., of Torquay,
  • RATTRAY, THOMAS (1878), The Regal Advent (pdf)
  • SAMUEL, M.A. (1829) “The Catechist’s Manual.”
  • STARK, ROBERT, of Torquay.
  • STEPHENSON, J. A., (1838) ” Christology of the Old and New Testaments,”
  • TERRY, MILTON S. (1883) ” Biblical Hermeneutics.”
  • THOM, Dr., of Liverpool.
  • WILKINSON, W. J. P., of Exeter.

ADVOCATES FOR “AD70 WAS THE COMING OF CHRIST”

Chrysostom (4th Century)
“Having in remembrance, therefore, this saving commandment and all those things which have come to pass for us: the Cross, the Grave, the Resurrection on the third day, the Ascension into heaven, the Sitting at the right hand, and the second and glorious Coming” (St. Chrysostom’s Liturgy)

Henry Alford (1868)
‘We may observe that our Lord makes “when the Lord cometh” coincide with the destruction of Jerusalem, which is incontestably the overthrow of the wicked husbandmen. This passage therefore forms an important key to our Lord’s prophecies, and a decisive justification for those who, like myself, firmly hold that the coming of the Lord is, in many places, to be identified, primarily, with that overthrow.” (On Matt. 21:33-46)

Dr. Carl August Auberlen (1856)
“Christ Himself represents the destruction of Jerusalem as His Messianic coming (Matt. xxiv. 28).” (p. 101)

Albert Barnes (1832)
(On Matthew 24:27) “The coming of the Son of man. It has been doubted whether this refers to the destruction of Jerusalem, or to the coming at the day of judgment. For the solution of this doubt, let it be remarked,

(1.) that those two events are the principal scenes in which our Lord said he would come, either in person or in judgment.

(2.) That the destruction of Jerusalem is described as his coming, his act, for their great crimes.

(3.) That these events–the judgment of Jerusalem and the final judgment –in many respects greatly resemble each other.

(4.) That they will bear, therefore, to be described in the same language. And,

(5.) therefore, that the same words often include both events, as properly described by them. The words, therefore, had doubtless a primary reference to the destruction of Jerusalem, but such an amplitude of meaning as also to express his coming to judgment.

Verse 28. Wheresoever, etc. The words in this verse are proverbial. Vultures and eagles easily ascertain where dead bodies are, and come to devour them. So with the Roman army. Jerusalem is like a dead and putrid corpse. Its life is gone, and it is ready to be devoured. The Roman armies will find it out, as the vultures do a dead carcass, and will come around it, to devour it. This proverb also teaches a universal truth. Wherever wicked men are, there will be assembled the instruments of their chastisement. The providence of God will direct them there, as the eagles are directed to a dead carcass.

This verse is connected with the preceding by the word “for,” implying that this is a reason for what is said there, that the Son of man would certainlycome to destroy the city, and that he would come suddenly. The meaning is, he would come by means of the Roman armies, as certainly, as suddenly, and as unexpectedly, as whole flocks of vultures and eagles, though unseen before, suddenly find their prey, see it at a great distance, and gather in multitudes around it. Travellers in the deserts of Arabia tell us that they sometimes witness a speck in the distant sky, which for a long time is scarcely visible. At length, it grows larger; it comes nearer; and they at last find that it is a vulture, that has from an immense distance seen a carcass lying on the sand. So keen is their vision, and so aptly does this represent the Roman armies, though at an immense distance, yet spying, as it were, Jerusalem, a putrid carcass, and hastening in multitudes to destroy it.

Verse 29. Shall the sun be darkened, etc. The images here used are not to be taken literally. They are often used by the sacred writers to denote any great calamities. As the darkening of the sun and moon, and the falling of the stars would be an inexpressible calamity, so any great catastrophe, any overturning of kingdoms or cities, or dethroning of kings and princes, is represented by the darkening of the sun and moon, and by some terrible convulsion in the elements. Thus the destruction of Babylon is foretold in similar terms, Isaiah 13:10; and of Tyre, Isaiah 24:23. The slaughter in Bozrah and Idumea is predicted in the same language, Isaiah 34:4. See also Isaiah 50:3; 60:19,20; Ezekiel 32:7; Joel 3:15. To the description in Matthew, Luke has added, Luke 21:25 there should be “distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; men’s hearts falling them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming upon the earth.” All these are figures of great and terrible calamity. The roaring of the waves of the sea denotes great tumult and affliction among the people, Perplexity means doubt, anxiety; not knowing what to do to escape. Men’s hearts failing them for fear, or by reason of fear. Their fears would be so great as to take away their courage and strength.

Verse 30. The sign of the Son of man. The evidence that Christ is coming to destroy the city of Jerusalem. It is not to be denied, however, that this description is applicable also to his coming at the day of judgment. The disciples had asked him, Matthew 24:3 what should be the sign of his coming, and of the end of the world. In his answer, he has reference to both events, and his language may be regarded as descriptive of both. At the destruction of Jerusalem, the sign or evidence of his coming was found in the fulfillment of these predictions. At the end of the world, the sign of his coming will be his personal approach with the glory of his Father and the holy angels, 1 Thessalonians 4:16; Luke 21:27; Matthew 26:64; Acts 1:11.

All the tribes of the earth mourn. This is, either all the tribes or people of the land of Judea shall mourn at the great calamities coming upon them, or all the nations of the world shall wail when He comes to judgment. All the wicked shall mourn at the prospect of their doom, Revelation 1:7. The cause of their wailing at the day of judgment shall be chiefly that they have pierced, killed, rejected the Saviour, and that they deserve the condemnation that is coming upon them, John 19:37; Zechariah 12:12.

And they shall see the Son of man. The Lord Jesus coming to judgment. Probably this refers more directly to his coming at the last day, though it may also mean that the evidence of his coming to destroy Jerusalem shall then be seen.

With power. Power, manifest in the destruction of Jerusalem, by the wonders that preceded it, and by the overturning of the temple and city. In the day of judgment, power manifest by consuming the material world, 2 Peter 3:7,10,12by raising the dead, John 5:29; 30; 1 Corinthians 15:52 by changing those who may be alive when he shall come; that is, making their bodies like those who have died, and been raised up, 1 Thessalonians 4:17; 1 Corinthians 15:52 by bringing the affairs of the world to a close, receiving the righteous to heaven, Matthew 25:34; 1 Corinthians 15:57 and by sending the wicked, however numerous or however strong, down to hell, Matthew 25:41,46; John 5:29.”

John Broadus (1886)
“Six months earlier (in 16:27 f.) he had declared that would come again in the glory of his Father, as the sovereign Judge of mankind; and that some of them then present would live to see him ‘coming in his kingdom.’ We there found it necessary to understand that the particular coming to which this last phrase especially refers took place at the destruction of Jerusalem, which made Christianity completely and manifestly distinct from Judaism, and established the Messianic kingdom in its permanent present state. The prediction then briefly made by our Lord is now (as a result of Matthew 24:30) more fully unfolded} (vol 1, Matthew, p. 479).

“It is practically impossible to suppose that v. 30f. relates simply to the destruction of Jerusalem. As the latter part of the discourse (25:31-36) clearly refers to the second coming of our Lord, it seems unavoidable to suppose a similar reference here; see also the corresponding passage, 13:41. But v. 34 will presently declare that “all” the foregoing matter will occur during the existing generation. Then we cannot believe (with Meyer and others) that the Saviour mistakenly expected his parousia to be within that generation, it follows that v. 29-31 must refer to the destruction of Jerusalem.” (An American Commentary, vol. 1, p. 491)

David Brown (1858)
“… What is the direct and primary sense of the prophecy? Those who have not directed their attention to prophetic language will be startled if I answer, The coming of the Lord here announced is his coming in judgment against Jerusalem – to destroy itself and its temple, and with them the peculiar standing and privileges of the Jews as the visible Church of God, and set up ‘the kingdom of heaven’ (or gospel kingdom) in a manner more palpable and free than could be done while Jerusalem was yet standing. I say this application of the words, as their direct and primary sense, will probably startle those unacquainted with the prophetic style. But all hesitation on the subject will cease if we will but allow the Scripture to be its own interpreter” (p. 434).

” ‘Many attempts,’ says Dr. Urwick, ‘have been made to anatomize this prophecy, and exhibit separately the parts which relate to the invasion of Jerusalem by Titus, and the parts which regard the judgment of the world at the last day. I have not met with any thing satisfactory in this way. If any man could have done it well, Bishop Horsley was the man: he had learning, ingenuity, power, and determination enough for it. Yet one cannot read the sermon in which he attempts to separate the prophecy of the ‘coming’ from the prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem, without feeling that a giant is grappling with a difficulty he cannot master. The statement of our Lord, ‘Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till these things be fulfilled’ puts it, I think, beyond question, that the whole range of the prediction was to have an accomplishment before the then race of human beings should all have died from the face of the earth “(David Brown, p. 441).

Adam Clarke (1837)
“I conclude, therefore, that this prophecy has not the least relation to Judas Maccabeus. It may be asked, to whom, and to what event does it relate? .. to the destruction of Jerusalem and the Jewish polity; which in the Gospel is called the coming of Christ and the days of vengeance, Matthew 16:28; Luke 21:22.” (Isaiah 65, p. 513)

Gary DeMar (1999)
“The word translated as ‘coming’ in verse 1 is the Greek word parousia, best translated as ‘presence’ in other contexts (2 Cor. 10:10; Phil 2:12)”  (Last Days Madness, 4th rev. ed.; Atlanta, GA: American Vision, 1999, p. 274)

“Jesus would coming “just as the lightening comes from the east,” that is, quickly and without warning.  In the Bible, lightening often signifies the presence of the Lord and His coming in judgment (Ex. 19:16; 20:18; Job 36:30; Ezek. 21:15,28; Zech 9:14).  God was not physically present during any of these Old Testament comings, but His presence was obvious, as the reaction of the people will testify:  “And when the people saw it, they trembled and stood at a distance (Ex. 20:18).” (ibid., pp. 123,124)

P.S. Desprez (1854)
“The Lord came, as he said, to destroy Jerusalem, and to close the dispensation.” (Preface to Apocalypse Fulfilled, p. vi).

“NO scriptural statement is capable of more decided proof than that the coming of Christ is the destruction of Jerusalem, and the close of the Jewish dispensation.” (ibid., p.9)

“To us individually, as to the Church in all subsequent ages, the coming of the Lord is an event yet future. To us individually he has not yet come; His coming will be to us “the hour of death and the day of judgment.” We then, equally with the disciples, may use the prayer, “Thy kingdom come,” for we may pray for the full and glorious consummation of that kingdom, the first advent of which was the object of their supplications. We, too, may pray “that at His second coming to judge the world, we may be found an acceptable people in His sight,” for we, equally with them, must meet a Savior Judge, before whose bar a strict account must be rendered. This divine book, like the rest of Scripture, contains “manna for all hearts and for all times,” and its lessons of warning and encouragement are not only applicable to those who were pronounced blessed if they should hear and read the words of this prophecy, but to hearers and readers of all lands and of all ages.

“But while, in common with all inspired truth, the promises and admonitions are suitable to the Church in every age, it is not criticism, neither is it piety, to invert the order of interpretation, to explain the secondary sense as if it were the primary sense, and to make the coming of our Lord, which He said should then take place, refer principally to a second and spiritual coming. […] I need not say that this is the inversion of prophecy, this is the “husteron proteron,”– the secondary sense placed in an undue position above the primary sense, and the uncertain and distant future preferred above the sure and tangible present. In their first obvious and specific meaning these prophecies relate to the coming of our Lord at the period when He abundantly declared He would so come. In their second general and universally applicable exposition they relate to a coming of Christ which every man shall experience in his own person, and which shall be to him either the judgment of the great whore, or the marriage of the Lamb; the first resurrection, or the second death.” (Apocalypse Fulfilled in the Consummation of the Mosaic Economy)

Jonathan Edwards (1776)
“‘Tis evident that when Christ speaks of his coming; his being revealed; his coming in his Kingdom; or his Kingdom’s coming; He has respect to his appearing in those great works of his Power Justice and Grace, which should be in the Destruction of Jerusalem and other extraordinary Providences which should attend it.” (Miscellany #1199)

F.W. Farrar (1882)
“It was to this event, the most awful in history – ‘one of the most awful eras in God’s economy of grace, and the most awful revolution in all God’s religious dispensations’ – that we must apply those prophecies of Christ’s coming in which every one of the Apostles and Evangelists fixed these three most definite limitations – the one, that before that generation passed away all these things would be fulfilled; another, that some standing there should not taste death till they saw the Son of Man coming in His kingdom; and third, that the Apostles should not have gone over the cities of Israel till the Son of Man be come. It is strange that these distinct limitations should not be regarded as a decisive proof that the Fall of Jerusalem was, in the fullest sense, the Second Advent of the Son of Man which was primarily contemplated by the earliest voices of prophecy” (Vol. 2, p. 489)

Dr. Ken Gentry
“The cloud-coming of Christ in judgment is reminiscent of Old Testament cloud-comings of God in judgment upon ancient historical people and nations.” [He Shall Have Dominion (Tyler, TX: ICE, 1992) 388-389]

“The final collapse of Jerusalem and the Temple.. Through these events the Jews were to “see” the Son of Man in His judgment-coming in terrifying cloud-glory: clouds are symbols of divine majesty often entailing stormy destruction.   The members of the Sanhedrin and others would experience such in their life times (Matt. 26:64; Mark 9:1; cf. Rev 1:7 with Rev 1:1,3).” (ibid. 348)

“The nature of the event has to do with a ‘Cloud-Coming’ of Christ. It is necessary here to understand the Old Testament backdrop for a proper comprehension of the matter. The Old Testament frequently uses clouds as indicators of divine judgment.” (Before Jerusalem Fell; Bethesda, MD: Christian University Press, 1997; p. 121)

Dr. Gerard (18th Century)
“This is the sign which the Jews so frequently required from our Saviour; the expectation of which, was founded upon this very prophecy of Daniel. By the manner in which he alludes to the prediction on this occasion, he expressly contradicts their interpretation of it, as being inconsistent with Daniel’s real meaning. They expected that the Son of Man would descend visibly from heaven to take upon him the government of the Jews, and to lead them out to victory over all their enemies. But he informs them, that they ought to expect something almost totally the reverse of this; the Son of Man, not descending visibly, but interposing powerfully and irresistibly, not for raising the Jews to universal empire, but for executing dreadful judgments and destruction on them. They could scarce fail to perceive, that coming in the clouds of heaven implied executing judgment; for the expression is used several times in their own scriptures, and always mean no more than this; they notwithstanding strained it to a literal sense; to the meaning of a visible appearance in Daniel’s prediction; and though they understood it to imply, the execution of judgment, yet it was only upon their enemies, not upon themselves. But Jesus informed them, that they themselves were the objects of that judgment.” (Gerard’s Disertations, sect. 4; quoted from Nisbett’s Illustration)

John Gill (1809)
“Ver. 30 And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven, &c.] the son of man himself: just as circumcision is called the sign of circumcision, #Ro 4:11 and Christ is sometimes called a sign, #Lu 2:34 as is his resurrection from the dead, #Mt 12:39 and here the glory and majesty in which he shall come: and it may be observed, that the other evangelists make no mention of the sign, only speak of the son of man, #Mr 13:26, Lu 21:27 and he shall appear, not in person, but in the power of his wrath and vengeance, on the Jewish nation which will be a full sign and proof of his being come: for the sense is, that when the above calamities shall be upon the civil state of that people, and there will be such changes in their ecclesiastical state it will be as clear a point, that Christ is come in the flesh, and that he is also come in his vengeance on that nation, for their rejection and crucifixion him, as if they had seen him appear in person in the heavens. They had been always seeking a sign, and were continually asking one of him; and now they will have a sign with a witness; as they had accordingly.”

(On the Significance of A.D.70)
“The language of prophecy often expresses a perspective different from that of ordinary historical narrative or prosaic literature. The prophets recognized in the great political upheavals of history the acts of the sovereign God (Amos 3:6) exercising his prerogative of “removing” and “raising up” rulers and empires (Dan 2:21). The conquest of one nation by another through invasion and war were little more than God’s means of judging the former – a nation that had been “:weighed in the balances and found wanting” (Dan. 5:27). The use of one nation’s military machine for the punishment of another sinful nation did not require that the nation so used be aware of its being an instrument in the hands of God (Isa. 10:5-15). God is working invisibly behind the affairs of men, unperceived except by the prophetic vision. A consequence of this prophetic perspective is the frequent occurrence in Scripture of the language of God’s “coming” to a nation to judge it, even though what is envisaged is not a visible appearance of God, but a military conquest. Thus Isaiah, predicting the wasting of Egypt by the forces of Assyria, can write, “Behold, the Lord rides on a swift cloud, and will come into Egypt” (19:1). Similar language, when applied to Christ (Matt 24:30) is apt to be applied by the reader to his Second Coming, though the language, when used in Isaiah, clearly does not allow this identification.”  (Revelation, p.24)

Steve Gregg (1997)
“The language of prophecy often expresses a perspective different from that of ordinary historical narrative or prosaic literature.  The prophets recognized in the great political upheavals of history the acts of a sovereign God (Amos 3:6) exercising his prerogative of “removing” and “raising up” rulers and empires (Dan. 2:21).  The conquest of one nation by another through invasion and war were little more than God’s means of judging the former – a nation that had been   “weighed in the balances and found wanting” (Dan. 5:27).  The use of one nation’s military machine for the punishment of another sinful nation did not require that the nation so used be aware of its being an instrument in the hands of God (Isa. 10:5-15).  God is working invisibly behind the affairs of men, unperceived except by the prophetic vision.  A consequence of this prophetic perspective is the frequent ocurrence in Scripture of the language of God’s “coming” to judge a nation to judge it, even though what is envisaged is not a visable appearance of God, but a military conquest.” (Revelation: Four Views, p,22)

“The language of prophecy often expresses a perspective different from that of ordinary historical narrative or prosaic literature.  The prophets recognized in the great political upheavals of history the acts of a sovereign God (Amos 3:6) exercising his prerogative of “removing” and “raising up” rulers and empires (Dan. 2:21).  The conquest of one nation by another through invasion and war were little more than God’s means of judging the former – a nation that had been   “weighed in the balances and found wanting” (Dan. 5:27).  The use of one nation’s military machine for the punishment of another sinful nation did not require that the nation so used be aware of its being an instrument in the hands of God (Isa. 10:5-15).  God is working invisibly behind the affairs of men, unperceived except by the prophetic vision.  A consequence of this prophetic perspective is the frequent ocurrence in Scripture of the language of God’s “coming” to judge a nation to judge it, even though what is envisaged is not a visable appearance of God, but a military conquest.” (Revelation: Four Views, p,22) – (Isaiah 19:1, 26:21; Ps. 96:13, 98:9; Micah 1:3; Rev. 2:5,16, 3:3)

Henry Hammond (1653)
“V.28. Coming in his kingdome.   The nearness of this to the story of Christ’s Transfiguration, makes it probable to many, that this coming of Christ is that Transfiguration of his, but that cannot be, because the 27th ver. of the Son of mans coming in his glory with his Angels to reward, &c. (to which this verse clearly connects) cannot be applied to that; And there is another place, Joh. 21.23 (which may help to the understanding of this) which speaks of a real coming, and one principall person (agreeable to what is here said of some standing here) that should tarry, or not die, till that coming of his.  And that surely was fulfilled in Johns seeing the pauoleoria, or famous destruction of the Jewes, which was to fall in that generation, Matt.24. that is, in the life-time of some there present, and is called the kingdome of God, and the coming of Christ, and by consequence here most probably the son of mans coming in his kingdome, (see the Notes on Mat. 3:2, and ch. 24:3.b.) that is, his coming in the exervise of his Kingly office, to work vengeance on his enemies, and discriminate the faithfull believers from them.” (in loc.)

[Note: This older exegesis is given to show that, in order to be honest with the clear declaration of Christ’s coming in the first century, one must hold to a “three comings of Christ” paradigm, which is a costly compromise.]

“Coming… the presence, or the coming of Christ is one of the phrases that is noted in his book to signifie the destruction of the Jews… A threefold coming of Christ there is, 1. in the flesh to be born among us, 2. at the day of gloom to judge the world, I Cor 15:23. and in many other places; and beside these, 3. a middle coming, partly in vengeance, and partly for the deliverance of his servants; in vengeance, visible, and observable on his enemies and crucifiers, (and first on the people of the Jews, those of them that remain impenitent unbelievers) and in mercy to the relief of the persecuted Christians. So ’tis four time in this chap. v. 27,37,39 and here.”

“…That this is the meaning of his coming in glory with his angels, Matt. 16:27 hath been shewed already. So again Matt 26:64, his coming in the clouds of heaven, though it may be thought to look toward his final third coming at the great day of doom, yet as the very Jews have observed, that that phrase signifies the inflection of judgment or punishment, so that it doth so here..” (p. 119)

Marcellus Kik (1971)
“..in the light of well-defined biblical language, the reference is rather to a coming in terms of the events of his providence in judgment against his enemies and in deliverance of his people.”   (An Eschatology of Victory, p.141)

John Lightfoot (1859)
“That Christ’s taking vengeance on that exceeding wicked nation is called Christ’s ‘coming in glory,’ and his ‘coming in the clouds,’ Dan. vii. It is also called, ‘the day of the Lord.’ See Psalm i.4; Mal. iii. I,2,&c; Joel ii.31; Matt xvi.28; Rev. i.7, &c.” (Lightfoot, vol. 2, p. 319).

“The destruction of Jerusalem is phrased in Scripture as the destruction of the whole world; and Christ’s coming to her in judgment, as his coming to the last judgment.  Therefore, those dreadful things, spoken of in Matt. 24:29,30 and 31, are but borrowed expressions, to set forth the terms of that judgment the more.. v.30 – “then shall they see” – not any visible appearance of Christ, or of the cross, in the clouds (as some have imagined); but, whereas  Jews would not own Christ before for the Son of Man, or for the Messias, then by the vengeance that he should execute upon them, they and all the world should see an evident sign, and it was so.  This, therefore, is called “his coming,” and his coming in his kingdom.” [A Commentary on the Acts of the Apostles, ed. Rev. John Rogers Pitman (London: J.F. Dove, 1825), p.141]

James MacKnight (1835)
“Exhorting one another daily, and so much the more, as ye sec the day approaching ;’ the day of Christ’s coming to destroy Jerusalem and the Jewish state.” ( A New Literal Translation, from the Original Greek, Page 424 )

Philip Mauro
“After much deliberation, whether the coming of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost, or the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, was the Second Coming of the Son of God, Mr. Mauro finally made his choice and decided that the destruction of Jerusalem was the Coming of the Lord and that it fulfilled the definite and precise promise recorded by Matthew: —Verily I say unto you, that there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16:28)” – The Kingdom of God: What, When, Where? (PDF) – An Answer to Mauro’s Gospel of the Kingdom

Heinrich Meyer (1852)
(On Matthew 24:30) “R. Hofman thinks that the reference is to that apparition in the form of a man which is alleged to have stood over the holy of holies for a whole night while the destruction of the capital was going on.” (vol. 1, p. 423) “R. Hofman thinks that the reference is to that apparition in the form of a man which is alleged to have stood over the holy of holies for a whole night while the destruction of the capital was going on.” (vol. 1, p. 423)

Nisbett (1787)
“It must, however, be remembered, that our Lord’s prophecy of his coming to destroy Jerusalem, is expressed by his coming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory, and sending his angels with a great sound of a trumpet; which the reader will see, have a striking resemblance to the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ, with his mighty angels, here mentioned by the Apostle. And therefore there can, I think, be no sufficient reason for not applying the words of the Apostle to the same event.” (ibid.) “It must, however, be remembered, that our Lord’s prophecy of his coming to destroy Jerusalem, is expressed by his coming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory, and sending his angels with a great sound of a trumpet; which the reader will see, have a striking resemblance to the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ, with his mighty angels, here mentioned by the Apostle. And therefore there can, I think, be no sufficient reason for not applying the words of the Apostle to the same event.” (ibid.)

(On Hebrews 10:37) “Such being their noble and truly praiseworthy conduct in times of past difficulty and trouble, the Apostle exhorts them not now, when nearly at an end, to cast away their courage or confidence, or suffer their faith to fail; for, saith he, it hath (even now) great recompence of reward; for ye have (yet) need of patience, that having done the will of God, ye may receive the promise; for yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. It is, I own, out of my power to conceive, that the Apostle is here speaking of any other coming, than that which our Lord foretold should happen in that generation, and in language so perfectly similar. The day approaching in the 25th verse; the chain of reasoning subsequent to it; the situation and circumstances these Hebrew Christians were then in, and the time when this epistle was written; all conspire to confirm me in the opinion, that the Apostle meant the destruction of Jerusalem.” (ibid.)

Thomas Newton (1754)
“‘The coming of Christ’ is also the same period with the destruction of Jerusalem, as may appear from several places in the Gospels, and particularly from these two passages; ‘There are some standing here,’ saith our blessed Lord, ‘who shall not taste of death till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom,’ Matt xvi. 28, that is, evidently, there are some standing here who shall live, not till they end of the world, to the coming of Christ to judge mankind, but till the destruction of Jerusalem, to the coming of Christ in judgment upon the Jews. In another place, John xxi.22, speaking to Peter concerning John, he saith, ‘If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?’ what is that to thee, if I will that he live till the destruction of Jerusalem? as in truth he did, and long. ‘The coming of Christ,’ and ‘the conclusion of the age,’ being therefore only different expressions to denote the same period with the destruction of Jerusalem, the purpose of the question plainly is, when shall the destruction of Jerusalem be, and what shall be the signs of it?’” (Newton, p. 374)

“‘immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not giver her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.’ Commentators generally understand this, and what follows, of the end of the world, and of Christ’s coming to judgment; but the words ‘immediately after the tribulation of those days,’ show, evidently, that he is not speaking of any distant but of something immediately consequent upon the tribulation before mentioned, and that must be the destruction of Jerusalem.”

“Our Saviour proceedeth in the same figurative style, ver. 30 – ‘ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.’ The plain meaning of it is, that the destruction of Jerusalem will be such a remarkable instance of divine vengeance, such a signal manifestation of Christ’s power and glory, that all the Jewish tribes shall mourn, and many will be led from thence to acknowledge Christ and the Christian religion. In the ancient prophets, God is frequently described as coming in the ‘clouds’ upon any remarkable interposition and manifestation of his power; and the same description is here applied to Christ. The destruction of Jerusalem will be as ample a manifestation of Christ’s power and glory as if he was himself to come visibly in the clouds of heaven.” (ibid., p. 408-409)

“It is to me a wonder how any man can refer part of the foregoing discourse to the destruction of Jerusalem, and part to the end of the world, or any other distant event, when it is said so positively here in the conclusion, “All these things shall be fulfilled in this generation.” It seemeth as if our Saviour had been aware of some such misapplication of his words, by adding yet greater force and emphasis to his affirmation, v 35 – “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away’” (Newton, p. 426)

John Humphrey Noyes
“We may sum up and concentrate the testimony we have examined in this section, thus: Christ designated the time of his second coming in six different ways. 1. He placed it immediately after the destruction of Jerusalem. 2. He instructed his disciples to expect it when they should see the fearful signs that should precede and accompany the destruction of Jerusalem, as they would look for summer after the budding of the fig-tree. 3. He most solemnly declared it would take place before the generation contemporary with himself would pass away. 4. He assured his disciples that it would happen before their ministry to the Jews would be finished. 5. He said there were some standing with him who should live till the event. 6. He plainly intimated that John should tarry till his coming.” (Hand-Book of the Oneida Community, 37.)

“Such language as this is perfectly natural on the supposition that they understood Christ’s predictions as setting the period of the second coming nigh at hand; and perfectly unnatural on any other supposition, as is proved by the fact that such language at the present day, when the churches generally believe the second coming to be afar off, is altogether obsolete; except among those whose theory, like that of Miller, places the second advent very near the present time. Men do not wait and look for a far distant event. Such language implies that the event expected is supposed to beimpending.” (Ibid., 37–38. )

John Owen (1721)
“Our Lord now proceeds to point out some of the more immediate signs of his coming to destroy Jerusalem, and put an end to the Jewish state and dispensation. Even Olshausen, who blends in such inseparable union the proximate and remote comings of our Lord, admils that vs. 15-21 ‘contain a very minute representation of the destruction of Jerusalem, without any pause being observed, or any intimation being given, that what follows is to be separated from what has preceded.’ It is precisely for this reason, viewing the Saviour’s reply to his disciples as designed to be intelligible, that in this portion of the prediction, I can find no direct reference to the day of judgment, only as the whole event of the coming to destroy Jerusalem is symbolical of that great and final coming to take vengeance on the ungodly.” (P. 312).

“That the language is similar to that in which Christ’s final coming is described, cannot be denied. But that is not strange, when we consider, as has been remarked, that the one event is typical of the other ; that his coming to destroy Jerusalem is a representation, faint indeed but real, of his glorious and awful coming to take vengeance upon the finally impenitent, and that language therefore is used of it, which seems appropriately to belong to the final judgment.” (P. 319.)

“So upon or in the destruction of Jerusalem, Luke 21:27, the Son of man is said to ‘come in a cloud, with power and great glory’ – and they that escape in that desolation are said to ‘stand before the Son of man, ver. 36.” (vol. 9, p. 139)

James Stuart Russell (1874)
“It is strange that so great incredulity should exist respecting the plain sense of our Lord’s declarations on this subject. Fulfilled or unfulfilled right or wrong, there is no ambiguity or uncertainty in his language. It may be said that we have no evidence of such facts having occurred as are here described-the Lord descending with a shout, the sounding of the trumpet, the raising of the sleeping dead, the rapture of the living saints. True; but is it certain that these are facts cognizable by the senses ? Is their place in the region of the material and the visible ? As we have already said, we know and are sure that a very large portion of the events predicted by our Lord, and expected by his apostles, did actually come to pass at that very crisis called ” the end of the age.” There is no difference of opinion concerning the destruction of the temple, the overthrow of the city, the unparalleled slaughter of the people, the extinction of the nationality, the end of the legal dispensation. But the parousia is inseparably linked with the destruction of Jerusalem; and, in like manner, the resurrection of the dead, and the judgment of the “wicked generation” with the parousia. They are different parts of one great catastrophe; different scenes in one great drama. We accept the facts verified by the historian on the word genea; is it for Christians to hesitate to accept the facts which are vouched by the word of the Lord ” (The Parousia, pp. 1689 169).
“It is strange that so great incredulity should exist respecting the plain sense of our Lord’s declarations on this subject. Fulfilled or unfulfilled right or wrong, there is no ambiguity or uncertainty in his language. It may be said that we have no evidence of such facts having occurred as are here described-the Lord descending with a shout, the sounding of the trumpet, the raising of the sleeping dead, the rapture of the living saints. True; but is it certain that these are facts cognizable by the senses ? Is their place in the region of the material and the visible ? As we have already said, we know and are sure that a very large portion of the events predicted by our Lord, and expected by his apostles, did actually come to pass at that very crisis called ” the end of the age.” There is no difference of opinion concerning the destruction of the temple, the overthrow of the city, the unparalleled slaughter of the people, the extinction of the nationality, the end of the legal dispensation. But the parousia is inseparably linked with the destruction of Jerusalem; and, in like manner, the resurrection of the dead, and the judgment of the “wicked generation” with the parousia. They are different parts of one great catastrophe; different scenes in one great drama. We accept the facts verified by the historian on the word genea; is it for Christians to hesitate to accept the facts which are vouched by the word of the Lord ” (The Parousia, pp. 1689 169).

“It is possible to believe in the fulfilment of predictions which take effect in the visible order of things, because we have historical evidence of that fulfilment; but how can we be expected to believe in fulfilments which are said to have taken place in the region of the spiritual and invisible when we have no witnesses to depose to the facts? Weean implicitly believe in the accomplishment of all that was predicted respecting the horrors of the siege of Jerusalem, the burning of the temple, and the demolition of the city, because we have the testimony of Josephus to the facts; but how can we believe in a coming of the Son of man, in a resurrection of the dead, in an act of judgment, when we have nothing but the word of prophecy to rely upon, and no Josephus to vouch for the historical accuracy of the facts? “To this it can only be said in reply that the demand for human testimony to events in the region of the unseen is not altogether reasonable. If we receive them at all it must be on the word of Him who declared that all these things would assuredly take place before that generation passed away. But, after all, is the demand upon our faith in this matter so very excessive ? A large portion of these predictions we know to have been literally and punctually fulfilled; we recognise in that accomplishment a remarkable proof of the truth of the word of God and the superhuman prescience that foresaw and foretold the future. Could any thing have been less probable at the time when our Lord delivered his prophetic discourse than the total destruction of the temple, the razing of the city, and the ruin of the nation in the lifetime of the existing generation ? What can be more minute and particular than the signs of the end enumerated by our Lord ? What can be more precise and literal than the fulfiliment of them?

“But the part which confessedly has been fulfilled, and which is vouched for by uninspired history, is inseparably bound up with another portion which is not so vouched for. Nothing but a violent disruption can detach the one part of this prophecy from the other. It is one from beginning to end- a complete whole. The finest instrument cannot draw a line separating one portion which relates to that generation from another portion which relates to a different and distant period. Every part of it rests on the same foundation, and the whole is so linked and concatenated that all must stand or fall together. We are justified, therefore, in holding that the exact accomplishment of so much of the prophecy as comes within the cognizance of the senses, and is capable of being vouched for by human testimony, is a presumption and guarantee in favour of the exact fulfilment of that portion which lies within the region of the invisible and spiritual, and which cannot, in the nature of things, be attested by human evidence. This is riot credulity, but reasonable faith, such as men fearlessly exercise in all their worldly transactions.

“We conclude, therefore, that all the parts of our Lord’s prediction refer to the same period and the same event; that the whole prophecy is one and indivisible, resting upon the same foundation of divine authority. Farther, that all that was cognizable by the human senses is proved to have been fulfilled, and, therefore, we are not only warranted, but bound to assume the fulfilment of the remainder as not only credible, but certain.” ( The Parousia pp. 547, 648.)

Thomas Scott (1817)
“The darkening of the sun and moon, the falling of the stars, and the shaking of the powers of the heavens, denote the utter extinction of the light of prosperity and privilege to the Jewish nation; the unhinging of their whole constitution in church and state; the violent subversion of the authority of their princes and priests; and the abject miseries to these the people in general, especially their chief persons, would be reduced, and the moral darkness to which they would be consigned. This would be an evident sign and demonstration of the Son of man’s exaltation to his throne in heaven; when he would come in his divine providence, as riding upon ‘the clouds of heaven with power and great glory’, to destroy his enemies, who would ‘not have him to reign over them;’ at which events all the tribes of the land would mourn and lament, whilst they saw the tokens and felt the weight of his terrible indignation” (Scott, vol. 1)

Simon Greenleaf (1846)
“The signs of Christ’s coming to Destroy Jerusalem: Matthew 24:15-42” (A Harmony of the Four Evangelists, p. 410)

Sir Thomas Moore
“Remember that the Evangelists, in predicting that kingdom, announce a dreadful advent! And that, according to the received opinion of the Church, wars, persecutions, and calamities of every kind, the triumph of evil, and the coming of Antichrist are to be looked for, before the promises made by the prophets shall be fulfilled. Consider this also, that the speedy fulfilment of those promises has been the ruling fancy of the most dangerous of all madmen, from John of Leyden and his frantic followers, down to the saints of Cromwell’s army, Venner and his Fifth-Monarchy men, the fanatics of the Cevennes, and the blockheads of your own days, who beheld with complacency the crimes of the French Revolutionists, and the progress of Bonaparte towards the subjugation of Europe, as events tending to bring about the prophecies; and, under the same besotted persuasion, are ready at this time to co-operate with the miscreants who trade in blasphemy and treason! But you who neither seek to deceive others nor yourself, you who are neither insane nor insincere, you surely do not expect that the millennium is to be brought about by the triumph of what are called liberal opinions; nor by enabling the whole of the lower classes to read the incentives to vice, impiety, and rebellion which are prepared for them by an unlicensed press; nor by Sunday schools, and religious tract societies; nor by the portentous bibliolatry of the age! And if you adhere to the letter of the Scriptures, methinks the thought of that consummation for which you look, might serve rather for consolation under the prospect of impending evils, than for a hope upon which the mind can rest in security with a calm and contented delight.

Montesinos.–To this I must reply, that the fulfilment of those calamitous events predicted in the Gospels may safely be referred, as it usually is, and by the best Biblical scholars, to the destruction of Jerusalem.”

Dr. Edward Robinson (1860)
(On Matthew 10:23) “The coming alluded to is the destruction of Jerusalem and the dispersion of the Jewish nation; and the meaning is, that the apostles would barely have time, before the catastrophe came, to go over the land warning the people to save themselves from the doom of an untoward generation; so that they could not well afford to tarry in any locality after its inhabitants had heard and rejected the message.” (Training of the Twelve, p. 117)

“The signs of Christ’s coming to Destroy Jerusalem and put and end to the Jewish State and Dispensation : Matthew 24:15-42” (Harmony, p. 123)

Philip Schaff (19th Century)
“This being so, then the words relating to a personal return of Jesus are to be taken as pointing to the Destruction of Jerusalem (Mat. x.23; xvi.28).” (Second Advent)

William Arnold Stevens (1887)
“It is of prime importance for the student of this subject to understand – so often is the case stated otherwise – that Parousia is the New Testament answer to two distinct words, arrival and presence, usually the former; that in most instances these meanings are not interchangable, but that one or the other is required, according to the context; for example, the former in I Cor. 16:17, and the latter in Phil. 212” (Stevens, p. 63)

J. A. Stephenson (1838)
“Faint indeed would be the splendour of Christ’s divine appearance, and dim the lustre of His glorious advent, were it a splendour of which the perception could be borne – or a lustre of which a glimpse could be caught by any terrestrial eye ! An appeal to the [ordinary] senses, or to history founded on information through them, would be an appeal to evidence perfectly incompetent.” (The Christology Of The Old And New Testaments., vol. ii. p. 132.)

“The series of trumpet blasts commencing with the Jewish war, and wonderfully indicating the events which marked its progress, having reached a termination the series of thunder claps, breaking forth with the siege of Jerusalem and strictly in unison with its leading occurrences, having come to a conclusion-the series of sealed envelopes all entirely unfolded and the series of vials all previously exhausted-the seventh thunder rolled away with the crash of the temple, and the seventh trumpet ushered in the consummations of prophecy and the presence of Messiah. Wrapt in clouds over Zion during the siege of Jerusalem, transcendent glory flashes forth with the final blast. Shaking earth and heaven, with a shout paralleled only by that on the cross, Messiah with His presence occupies all His conquest. That the fall of Jerusalem formed a perfect demonstration of Christ’s veracity and an awful display of His indefeasible sovereignty-that it left nothing wanting in the proof of His Messiahship and completed the evidence of His being the Coming One and the Come-will be admitted with conviction proportioned to attention. Grand in itself, the fall of Jerusalem was infinitely more so in reference to concurrent but invisible [2] facts. A curtain dropping and covering at its base the shattered fragments of Satanic enterprise, its development veiled a burst of glory such as mortal vision was incapable of sustaining. But invisible’ as was the Theocrat at both the commencement and the conclusion of the legal economy, at both the commencement and the conclusion the Theocrat Himself was there. Disparaging is every idea of Messiah’s descent which does not suppose Him to have alike descended to the upper world and the under world, and in an instant to have filled all things with His presence and glory. The transcendently grand event of His descent occurring, no part of space was left in which the glory of Messiah may not be perceived by competent faculties.” (The Christology Of The Old And New Testaments. 1838.)

C. Jonathan Seraiah
“It is true that the “eschatology” of the New Testament is predominantly preterist. For those unfamiliar with the preterist perspective, it is the ancient view that many of the eschatological passages of the New Testament were fulfilled (completely) in the destruction of Jerusalem in a.d. 70. This view may sound novel, but in reality there have been orthodox adherents to it throughout church history (e.g., Clement of Alexandria, Eusebius, John Lightfoot, John Owen, Milton Terry, Jay Adams). This interpretation does not deny the Final Coming of Christ; it merely finds that not all “coming” passages refer to that event. The preterist interpretation is actually the most faithful to the biblical text because it recognizes that Old Testament prophetic terminology was used by the New Testament authors. This recognition is helpful in distinguishing the prophecies of Christ’s coming that were near, in the first century (Matt. 10:23; 16:28; 24:30; 26:64; 1 Thess. 5:2; 2 Thess. 1:7; James 5:7-9; 1 Pet. 4:7; Rev. 1:3, 7; etc.) and thus fulfilled in a.d. 70, from those that were far (John 5:28-29; Acts 1:11; 17:31; 1 Cor. 15:23-24; 1 Thess. 4:16; 1 Jn. 3:2; etc.) and thus not yet fulfilled even in our day. It also helps to distinguish between a spiritual “coming” (invisible for temporal judgment, as in a.d. 70) and a physical coming (visible for eternal judgment).” (End of All Things)

Milton Terry (1898)
“Is there no other way to understand the words of Paul? Does not the doctrine of our Lord, as we have traced it the Gospel Apocalypse, warrant us in believing that all these sublime events ocurred at that momentous crisis of the ages when Judaism and her temple fell a hopeless ruin ? Why should it be thought a thing incredible that God should then have raised many of them that slept in death? Why assume that the rapture of living saints must needs be visible to all mortal eyes ? The parousia, according to the Scriptures, was to take place at the end of an age, and not to involve the cessation of the human race on earth. Our Lord most plainly declared that then some should be taken and some should be left (Matt. xxiv, 40, 41), and as we have already shown (see above, p. 448), there is no sufficient reason for assuming that such a rapture of living saints must have been visible to those who were left.’ The ascension of our Lord into heaven was witnessed by no great multitude. (Biblical Hermeneutics, p. 458)

“Chiliastic writers, in claiming that the word parousia, coming, or presence, always means a personal presence, appear to assume that there can be no personal coming or presence of the Lord unless it be literally visible to human eyes. This would exclude the personal presence of God and of angels from the divine government of the world. Will it be pretended that there was no personal coming or presence of Jehovah at the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? Comp. Gen. xviii, 21 ; xi x, 24, 25. But the Scriptures give no intimation of any visible appearance of the holy One to the inhabitants of the doomed cities. And so again and again has God come in terrible judgment upon wicked men and nations without any visible display of his person–a sight which no man may behold and live (Exod. xxxiii, 20). (Biblical Hermeneutics, p. 458b)

(On Acts 1:11) “Acts i, 11, is often cited to show that Christ’s coming must Deeds be spectacular, in like manner as ye beheld him going into the heaven.” But (1) in the only other three places where bv rp61rov, what manner, occurs, it points to a general concept rather than the particular form of its actuality. Thus, in Acts vii, 28, it is not sonic particular manner in which Moses killed the Egyptian that is notable, but rather the certain fact of it. In 2 Tim. iii, 8, it is likewise the fact of strenuous opposition rather than the special manner in which Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses. And in Matt. xxiii, 37, and Luke xiii, 34, it is the general thought of protection rather than the visible manner of a mother bird that is intended. Again (2), if Jesus did not come in that generation, and immediately after the great tribulation that attended the fall of Jerusalem, his words in Matt. xvi, 27, 28, xxiv, 29, and parallel passages are in the highest degree misleading. (3) To make the one statement of the angel in Acts i, 11, override all the sayings of Jesus on the same subject and control their meaning is a very one-sided method of biblical interpretation. But all the angel’s words necessarily mean is that as Jesus has ascended into heaven so he will come from heaven And this main thought agrees with the language of Jesus and the prophets.” (Biblical Apocalyptics, note 34)

(On the coming of the Lord in Psalm 18) “The simplest reader of this psalm observes that, in answer to the prayer of the one in distress, Jehovah reveals himself in marvelous power and glory. He disturbs for his sake all the elements of the earth and the heavens. He descends from the lofty sky as if bending down the visible clouds and making a pathway of massive darkness under his feet. He seems to ride upon a chariot, borne along by cherubims, and moving swiftly as the winds… In the psalmist’s thought winds, fire, hail, smoke, clouds, waters, lightenings, and earthquake are conceived as immediately subservient to Jehovah, who interposes for the rescue of his devout servant.” (Biblical Apocalyptics, p. 25)

“David’s deliverance was, of course, not really accompanied by such convulsions of nature, by earthquake, and fire, and tempest; but his deliverance, or rather his manifold deliverance, gathered into one, as he thinks of them, appear to him as marvelous a proof of the divine power, as verily effected by the immediate presence and finger of God, as if he had come down in visible form to accomplish them. – The Book of Psalms, new translation, vol. i. p. 186, 1876 (Biblical Apocalyptics, p. 25)

“The Son of man came in heavenly power to supplant Judaism by a better covenant, and to make the kingdoms of the world his own, and that parousia dates from the fall of Judaism and its temple. The mourning of ‘all the tribes of the land’ (not all nations of the globe) was coincident with the desolation of Zion, and our Lord appropriately foretold it in language taken from Zech. xii, 11,12” (Biblical Hermeneutics,p. 446-447)

N.T. Wright (1992)
“The word ‘parousia’ is itself misleading, anyway, since it merely means ‘presence’; Paul can use it of his being present with a church, and nobody supposes that he imagined he would make his appearance flying downward on a cloud..  The church expected certain events to happen within a generation and happen they did, though there must have been moments between AD30 and 70 when some wondered if they would and in consequence took up the Jewish language of delay.  Jerusalem fell; the good news of Jesus, and the kingdom of Israel’s God, was announced in Rome, as well as in Jerusalem and Athens.” (The New Testament and the People of God, Minneapolis, MN: Fortress Press, p. 463)

Greek Word StudiesBIBLE TRANSLATIONS

‘Coming in the Clouds’ in Old Testament

Exodus 16:10 “And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.”

Exodus 19:9 “And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD.”

Exodus 34:5 “And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.”

Leviticus 16:2 “And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat. “

Numbers 11:25 “And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease. “

Psalm 18:9-12 “He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet. 10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind. 11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies. 12 At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of fire.

Psalm 97:2-5 “Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne. 3 A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about. 4 His lightnings enlightened the world: the earth saw, and trembled. 5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the LORD, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Psalm 104:3 “Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind: “

Isaiah 19:1 ” The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. “

Daniel 7:13 “I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.”

Nahum 1:3 “The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.”

Ps 96:13; 98:9 – Isa 26:21 – Micah 1:3 – Rev 2:5 – 2:16 – 3:3

General ‘Comings-down’ in the Old Testament

Genesis 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

Exodus 3:8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians..

Deuteronomy 33:2 “And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them. “

Psalm 18:7 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth. 8 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it. 9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darknesswas under his feet. 10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind. 11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies. 12 At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of fire. 13 The LORD also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave his voice; hail stones and coals of fire.

Psalm 97:5 “The hills melted like wax at the presence of the LORD, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Psalm 50:3 “Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.”

Psalm 144:5 “Bow thy heavens, O LORD, and come down: touch the mountains, and they shall smoke.”

II Samuel 22:7 “In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears. 8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. 9 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it. 10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet. 11 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.

Isaiah 31:4 “For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.

Isaiah 64:3 “When thou didst terrible things which we looked not for, thou camest down, the mountains flowed down at thy presence.”

Isaiah 66:15 “For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.”

Matthew 26:64 –

“Jesus says to him, You say so: but I say to you, From now (arti) arti) you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven. (BBE)

“Jesus says to him, *Thou* hast said. Moreover, I say to you, From henceforth ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven. (DARBY)

“Jesus said to him, You said it. I tell you more. From this time you shall see the Son of man sitting off the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of the heavens. (LIT)

Luke 17:20 Asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God would come, He replied to them by saying, The Kingdom of God does not come with signs to be observed or with visible display.

SIEGE OF JERUSALEM – 1380-1390

All that remains, after this central moment in the text, is to “cleanse” the Temple and the old Jewish cultus once and for all: that is, the Temple must be destroyed. This destruction, too, was viewed as a fulfillment of Christ’s prophecy. As Christ had said that Jerusalem’s enemies would “not leave in thee a stone upon a stone” (Luke 19:44; 21:6), so will Jerusalem’s conquerors utterly destroy the Temple. In taking over command of the army from his father,127 Titus swears an oath to do just this; Vespasian replies (lines 1015-20):

“My wele and my worschup ye weldeth to kepe,
For the tresour of my treuth upon this toun hengyth:

“I nold this toun were untake, ne this toures heye,128
For alle the glowande golde upon grounde riche,
Ne no ston in the stede stondande alofte,
Bot alle overtourned and tilt, Temple and other.”
prosperity; honor; you control
troth; town hangs

glowing
stone in the place
tilled, Temple and all

And it is this same detail of overturning the Temple so that no stone stands upon another, and thus fulfilling the twin prophecies of Christ in Luke, that is emphasized in the aftermath of the siege (lines 1285-96):

So they wroughten at the wal alle the woke tyme,
Tille the cyté was serched and sought al aboute,
Maden wast at a wappe ther the walle stode,
Bothe in Temple and in tour alle the toun over.
Nas no ston in the stede stondande alofte,
Morter ne mude-walle bot alle to mulle fallen:
Nother tymbre ne tre, Temple ne other,
Bot doun betyn and brent into blake erthe.

And whan the Temple was overtilt, Tytus commaundys
In plowes to putte and alle the place erye;
Suth they sow hit with salt, and seiden this wordes:
“Now is this stalwourthe stede distroied forevere.”
made; that week’s time
Until
Made waste with one blow where
tower
Was no stone; place standing
mud-brick wall; earth
Neither timber
That wasn’t razed and burned

overthrown
plowed up
Then they sowed; these
strong place destroyed

Here, at the end of the poem, Christ’s prophecies are at last fulfilled. Jerusalem, the Temple, and the killers of Christ have been utterly destroyed. No stone is left standing on another. It is no coincidence that the corresponding action at the beginning of the poem – the other end of this particular frame of the text – is the Crucifixion of Christ. Even the details of the actions share common ground: the Romans harrowing the city of Jerusalem (“In plowes to putte and alle the place erye” – line 1294) is surely meant to hearken back to the Jews setting the scourging post into the ground (“A pyler pyght was doun upon the playn erthe” – line 9). The exiled Jews are defined by their torment of Christ (“Ne non that leved in here lawe scholde in that londe dwelle / That tormented trewe God” – lines 1323-24), a torment depicted in quite graphic detail at the beginning of the poem (lines 10-18). The entire poem is ultimately framed by Christ: it begins with the Passion of Christ, and ends with Christ’s prophecies fulfilled, His death avenged, and the path made ready for the Parousia, a Second Coming that surely lies just beyond the end of the poem. It is possible, perhaps, that the story’s final lines (1337-40) allude to this ultimate act in human history, depicting a return to a home of two sorts: the physical city of Rome and the new spiritual home that Rome represents.

Whan alle was demed and don they drowen up tentis,
Trossen here tresour and trompen up the sege,
Wenten syngyng away and han here wille forthred,
And hom riden to Rome. Now rede ous oure Lord!		 said and done; folded
Pack; trumpet; siege
have their will furthered
ride home; guide us may

Christ “Coming” in a Spiritual Sense

Behold, I stand at the door and knock.  If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. (Rev. 3:20)

And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper… the Spirit of Truth… I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. (John 14:16-18)

Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. (John 14:23)

Date: 08 Sep 2003
Time: 14:59:49

I believe there are very few references if any to the Second Coming that is not concerning the end of the Physical Jewish age and the beginning of the New Israel spiritual in 70 AD after about 30 years of transition time from the ministry of Christ to the last stone falling in Jerusalem. I take that one step farther and conclude for myself that the Book Of Revelation is also pre 70 AD and relates the spiritual saga of the old to the new, the good against the bad, and those who overcame to become apart of the New Jerusalem spiritual of which I am NOW a citizen. Thanks Russell Ashby

Date: 05 Dec 2003
Time: 02:14:05

I pray for who ever decided to make such a stir with this topic, for you do not understand the Bible and what it teaches. I pray your soul is corrected for the false and OUT DATED information you have submited. YOU SEEM TO FORGET THAT THE NATION OF ISREAL WAS REBORN IN 1948, OVER NIGHT… READ THE BOOK OF ISAIAH…

Date: 25 Dec 2003
Time: 12:29:21

I have been a partial preterist for about 20 years now. I don’t hold to know everything about eschatology, but I can tell you I know a lot better than some of the so-called teachers of it today. Some of the absolute nonsense that is circulating in the Church today is one reason why the Church is in riducule amongst the unbelievers. The last great world kingdom is not the revived Roman Empire, which the Scripture clearly states is to to be the LAST human world empire. The last great world kingdom is THE KINGDOM OF GOD! That Kingdom began at the Ascension when Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father and began to rule over the affairs of mankind without the benefit of human government. The events of the Tribulation Period occurred from 66AD until the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, a span of 42 Biblical months, based on a 360 day year, just as Revelation stated it would. The Fourth Beast was Rome. 666 was Kaisar Neron. The False Prophet was the Sanhedrin which sold out the Jewish people of the time and supported Nero. The Mark of the Beast is the antithesis of the command of God for the Jews to bind the words of YHWH upon their hearts and minds. (i.e. the head and the hand) Since they refused to obey, they instead bound the Mark of Nero to themselves, trusting (and in essence worshipping) the Beast. They worshipped Neron Kaisar rather than Yeshua ha Mashiach and therefore reaped the fiery judgment of 70AD. Jerusalem (which incidentally also sits on 7 hills) became the seat of the Beast, Israel figuratively became a whore. (See also Ezekiel 16, Jeremiah 50-51). God judged unbelieving Israel, but spared the remnant (the Church) to give the Gospel to the Gentiles (the remainder of the world). If we understand the 1000 years to mean figuratively a long period, then a lot of things make sense. It also makes sense to consider that the end of the 1000 years has come and Satan has been released from the bottomless pit (figurative for death [Sheol in the OT was always the Pit]meaning that he only had influence over unbelievers who were by their unbelief governed by death). There will be one last attempt by Satan to rule mankind, which will result in the Last Day Coming of Christ, i.e. the Judgment of the World. The Great Tribulation and destruction of Jerusalem were the End of the Age, not the End of the WORLD. Judgment Day still remains. If we open our eyes, we will see it marching toward us.

Date: 02 Apr 2004
Time: 18:55:47

Unfortunately many of we believers in Christ are so shallow of depth in the truths of the bible that absent the supposed parousia we have little left to hope for. Eternal life no longer has any reward and we throw up our hands in despair as if the Christ cannot exist without the doctrine of His second coming. This is one of the best sites I have seen regarding Christian reading, I thank you. Now let us find the Kingdom shall we?

Date: 28 Apr 2004
Time: 07:01:04

I wonder what you are trying to prove with this site. That we have no hope at all?? If all of what i read and/or understand here is that Christ allready returned, that there is no rapture and no millenial reign of Christ, no new Heaven and Earth than Christianity has no blessed hope at all. There is no reason to believe than – perhaps we should better turn to Judaism if what you try to defend here would be true. Rudy / The Netherlands.

Date: 28 Apr 2004
Time: 15:29:24

Try to imagine instead a fully completed work and victorious Christ… are you interested yet?… ruling over the nations, watching every act, and dealing accordingly. There has been progress in the last 2,000 years without end. Yes there are attendent negatives with increased liberty, but it is temporary. Before long, war will cease and the earth will be filled with the glory of God. Do you find any hope in that? I sure do! It inspires me to fight like hell for my King’s realm. Translated in “happy talk”: Consecration and determination in your faith will prove to you that all has been fulfilled and Christ is victorious — not any of the articles in this website. (cf. Isaiah 9:7; Dan 2:44, etc.)

Date: 21 May 2004
Time: 02:32:39

CROWN OF GOLD As He gazes on His world, heart overflows with sorrow Sees the goodness of humanity decrease with each tomorrow. Views the soulless wreaking havoc, upon good and pure of heart, as the world that he created, slowly tears itself apart. “Where has all the goodness gone? Why are they without faith? Why do all my children now in selfish life partake?” His tears, they are unceasing, viewing children from above They sell their souls to Satan, placing hate where once was love. The festering wound of hatred strives, nourished by their souls as the jealousy and greed, begin to spread out of control. God calls upon His people, those unwavering from their path, for those who preach His word, will be held free from facing wrath. Righteous prophets preaching, though, words fall upon deaf ears; the faithless, they give warning, the end is drawing nearer. “The malicious shall be punished wishing harm upon their brothers, while pure of heart will conquer, preaching peace, goodwill to others. He holds no blame my children for the weakness you consume, for if you had stayed true of heart, the evil could not bloom. Feel His strength within you, and the pain will start to cease; for you must allow God entry, only He can slay the Beast!” And so, the prophets prophesize, they spread the word of God. They warn forthcoming peril, they speak of what they saw. Though the people laugh at them, they stay the righteous path never do they falter, in warning all impending wrath. As Satan’s spawn wreak havoc spreading pain and pestilence Taking aim upon the righteous, pure of heart, and innocent. Strengthening in numbers, they grow stronger by the hour, Inflicting mortal wounds, causing the faithful souls to sour. God calls unto his generals, “Make ready it is time! I’ll not allow the evil to consume that, which is mine! My people are not strong enough to fight them off alone! My warriors must make ready, they must bring the chosen home!” Heaven’s Gates spring open, giving entry to within, As God informs His angels that the war will soon begin. He sends for all His heroes, of both past and those of late. He sends for all His warriors, bidding welcome at the gate. Prophets view the Heavens, come to life before their eyes. They hear the sound of trumpets; they hear the battle cries! They see the mighty warriors sit astride their mighty steeds; they hear those shouting orders, telling all of evil deeds. “To The Righteous who have gathered here, Heroes young and old! I pray you listen carefully, this message from Him told! It seems that beloved children have been lacking in their faith, they ridicule His prophets, persecute with words of hate! The soulless, black with evil, have spread sickness to our brothers! Pledging souls to Satan will spread plague among the others! We must stand beside our Father and fight for those in need! We must rescue all our innocent from darkness, hate, and greed!” Suddenly, those gathered, found struck speechless, and amazed, when appears most cherished angel, chosen eyes had yet to gaze! Beside her, beloved Savior, Jesus, carried on a cross, A crown of thorns upon His head, as when His life He lost. She casts her look upon Him, love bestowing from her eyes, She turns her gaze unto the earth, with words of hope she cries, “Lord Jesus gave His life for them, so they might be forgiven, But now, the evil hath returned, behold, His Son is risen!” Jesus appears before them, standing strong in Father’s mold Upon His head a crown of thorns, turns mighty Crown of Gold! PART TWO The battles rage in Heaven, warriors, heroes, shield, and sword, waging war on Satan’s demons, seeking harm befall our Lord. The prophets view the demons, their hearts blackened as if coal, they see the face of evil, view the lifeless without souls. They witness warriors fighting, beside heroes young and old, slaying wicked minions, side by side, combating bold! Jesus looks upon them, sees the prophets viewing visions, hears them preaching word of God, and tell of Satan’s abolition. When whispered cry for mercy echoes Heaven’s air… The sound of weakened chosen’s, desperate plea, and heartfelt prayer. “My Dear Lord, please forgive me, for I can no longer fight. I am beat-down and weary, stripped of will, I’m without might.” Lord Jesus flees from Heaven upon hearing child’s plea; He vows to save the children, set the faithful prophets free! He takes with him an army, to slay the soulless beasts; No mercy faithless given, though the soulless given least! A crowd before Him gathers, dropping down upon their knees, praying thanks to Heaven, grateful, God has heard their pleas. “You, the righteous chosen, the prophets, faithful all, Will join with me in battle, fight beside me, standing tall… But first, I seek a chosen who’s been weakened by her plight. Her cries were heard in Heaven, as she prayed throughout the night.” The crowd before him separates, giving way to frail child, her clothing, worn and tattered, tear-filled eyes, gaze absent, wild. “My child, look upon me, behold with chosen eyes. Tis me, your beloved Jesus, from my death I did arise.” The frail child looks into a face she’d thought a stranger, yet, beholds the sight of Heaven in the eyes of her true Savior! “Lord Jesus, pray forgive me, but my faith, it did grow weak! Battle weary, beaten, I did forget that which I seek. I began to get the feeling, I was mistaken in my plight, for why are there so may doing wrong, and not what’s right? As promised at my birth, I have spread the word of God; Yet, I’m not but faithful failure, for I fear I’m faithful fraud.” Jesus raises his loving hand, gently to her lips, silencing her words in a request that she hear His… “Hush, my Child, cry no more, for I have come to conquer. Satan shall be cast away and Evil’s reign no longer. As the prophets prophesized, I was crucified the lamb, and return now as The Lion, to rid hatred from God’s land. If Faithful I find lacking, yet, goodness still possess, those children be forgiven, though the faithless I shall test. I’ll bestow a glimpse of Heaven upon all those not yet damned; One chance for their repentance, and the offering of my hand. If they should choose the darkness, opposing Heaven’s light, they be cast down just as Satan, forever banished from my sight! Hold strong your faith my child, for to weaken would bring shame. Go among the people, feel my strength, and spread His name.” The chosen child stares into the eyes of Heaven’s Prince. She feels her strength restoring at the offered Heaven’s glimpse. She takes the hand before her, rises up from dampened ground. The people who have gathered, from their lips hear not a sound. Her clothes, they are not tattered, of teary eyes, there is no sign, Stands before them, faithful chosen, full of strength, just as designed! Written By: Catherine Jean Riley Copyright © May 2002 wittyvixen1@aol.com

Date: 10 Sep 2004
Time: 13:28:01

For those who simply make a quick post on here stating that this teaching is “without a future hope” or that these people don’t get it, please read further. While I don’t demand that you agree, I do suggest that you find out what exactly is being taught before you jump in the deep end. When I hear people make comments on here (like this one: “I pray for who ever decided to make such a stir with this topic, for you do not understand the Bible and what it teaches. I pray your soul is corrected for the false and OUT DATED information you have submited. YOU SEEM TO FORGET THAT THE NATION OF ISREAL WAS REBORN IN 1948, OVER NIGHT… READ THE BOOK OF ISAIAH…”), what immediately comes to mind is someone who has been taught for some time all about futurist eschatology; who has read the Lindsey, Ice and LaHaye; and who has never seriously considered other eschatological views OR even his own! That is, (while I don’t expect everyone to know everything-I ceratainly don’t) the impression I get from such statements is that you are not making it in an effort to edify the body, but out of a defensive posture, in order to validate your own belief. Of course, this may not be the case. You may be one of the most learned people in all of Christendom, but you would never know it from a post like “you are all crazy…don’t you read your Bible?…This is the work of Satan…it’s so obvious you are wrong” etc. Again, I am not expecting you to bring forth a huge theological treatise. However, it is interesting. Given the force and passion of certain responses on this site against what is believed by some people to be absolute heresy and the work of Satan, you would think that such people would feel led to demonstrate why they are correct and the people here are wrong, wouldn’t you? If you believe all these people are wrong and damned, then shouldn’t you bring more than “you are crazy”? Shouldn’t you try to shed light on what you consider to be darkness? For those of you who do that, I can respect your efforts. Again, no one expects you to bring all the answers to questions that have been asked for millenia right here in this small area. But I can appreciate a link to a site you think is important, or a couple of bible passages along with relevant commentary that you think is correct. But you should bring at least that much! If all you do is yell at people here, then you are not actually making any positive point, you are not shedding what you believe to be light in darkness, which if you are a Christian, you should be called to do, and frankly, you do not sound like someone who is teaching, and therefore not like someone who needs to be listened to. Believe what you will, but bring it. When you just shout out, “You are crazy. Read Isaiah!” people will pretty much just skip over that comment. Give them more than that. Sometimes I think that since there are no names demanded in this “forum” then people pretty much feel they can say whatever they want and there is no accountability. That may or may not be true. : )

Date: 18 Sep 2004
Time: 17:16:36

As a Bible believing christian, I am shocked to read the none sense in this web site. How dare you to say that Christ predictions have all come to past. I think and believe you fit the verse were Jesus said that there will be false teacher infiltrated in our midst. You and those teaching that Christ Second Coming already took place, must be reading a different book, that’s not the true Word of God. I do not mean this to offend you or anyone else, but I strongly believe and know you and your ministry are teaching something that’s not biblical. Christ Second Coming has not yet taken place. This is a futuristic prophetic event. Revelation 19:11-21. Please, be more biblical and truthful to those who are hungry for the Living Word of God. Don’t mislead them into believing that Christ Second Coming already took place in the past. God have mercy on your soul…God Bless You!!!

Date: 24 Sep 2004
Time: 11:17:30

pt.1 Kingdom with out end! Matt. 16:28-Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Now I am not sure about the rest of you, but I don’t remember seeing any 2000yr old disciples running around. aka~in the garden~

Date: 24 Sep 2004
Time: 11:58:28

PT.2-aka~in the garden~What was it that Jesus set out to accomplish at the cross? Let us look back. Through out the Old Testament what did they really care about? They had to sacrifice lambs to not cover…but roll their sins forward…hmm. What is the question Jesus was answering then in Matt 24:3? And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Matt 24:14 the answer was: and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Did the Gospel get preached? Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;–Ok, you might ask the end to what…again what did the children of Israel seek throughout the Old Testament…forgiveness of sins! NO MORE ROLLING SINS FORWARD…Daniel 9:24-27–Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.– End of Sin(no more rolling forward sin paid for done–mercy—forgiveness—grace), make reconciliation for iniquity(same answer), bring everlasting righteousness(remember the mercy seat? Jesus was the mercy seat), seal up the Vision given to Moses and Abraham(they seen Salvation from behind—they knew forgiveness of sins was coming), Anoint the most Holy JESUS CHRIST! 69 wks. what about the 70th…glad you asked! In the midst of the 70th the Messiah would be cut off BUT NOT FOR HIMSELF…WHO EVER GOT THE IDEA THIS IS TALKING ABOUT THE ANTICHRIST? SINCE WHEN WOULD HE BE CUT OFF FOR HIS PEOPLE…HA. Ok on with it…he shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease(No more Old Testament sacrifice of lambs…HE WAS THE LAMB!) Which brings us to this…When was satan cast out of Heaven? I know…your response is probably before Adam and Eve, right? Well let us look at Rev 12:1-14–1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.–vs.3-The dragon(satan) gathers a third part of the stars(angels)-vs.5-The manchild comes forth…Jesus…AND IS CAUGHT UP UNTO HIS THRONE…when did Jesus Ascend to his throne? After the cross…After he paid the price for sin…-vs.7-9-the serpent,called the devil, and satan…WAS CAST OUT UNTO THE EARTH…-vs.10-NOW HAS COME SALVATION, AND STRENGTH,…AND THE KINGDOM OF OUR GOD…AND THE POWER OF CHRIST…FOR THE ACCUSER OF OUR BRETHREN IS CAST DOWN WHICH ACCUSED THEM BEFORE GOD…DAY…AND NIGHT-vs.11-and they overcame him by THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB…WORD OF THEIR TESTAMONY…satan was cast down from Heaven and Eden after the cross…for it was not until the cross had sin been paid for and JESUS took back what man had given satan…man gave satan “right”…Jesus took that back…remember after his death Jesus went to hell and took the keys to death…hell…and the grave…IT WAS THEN THAT ETERNAL LIFE WAS OBTAINABLE…PRETERISM IS NOT A DOCTRINE OF THE DEVIL IT EMPHISISES THE ACTION OF JESUS CHRIST AND WHAT HE DID ON THE CROSS…PRETERISM DOES NOT TAKE AWAY YOUR HOPE…IT REVEILS HOPE…MY HOPE IS IN CHRIST JESUS ALONE!…HE BROUGHT ME BACK TO WHERE HE INTENDED…PARADISE…EDEN…DOMINION…POWER…THE KINGDOM…the suffix -dom in KINGDOM means dominion!!!~~~TO BE CONTINUED~~~

Date: 17 Oct 2004
Time: 13:35:17

I would be grateful if you could please remove my name and the misuse of my quotes from this website. I certainly do not think the second coming of Jesus has already happened, and I never did. Furthermore, you have misquoted or misrepresented various others as well. Dr. Ben Witherington, III

Quotes removed from above and elsewhere, except for below.  Please do tell, though, if these are not exact quotes from you on the nature and timing of the parousia:

1) “Paul may have been the first person to use the term parousia to refer to the return of Christ.  The term itself does not mean ‘return’ or ‘second’ coming; it simply means ‘arrival’ or ‘presence.’”  (Jesus, Paul and the End of the World, Intervarsity Press; p. 152)

2) “We must always keep in mind that when Paul speaks of the events that ensue at the parousia and he associates them with the End (telos; see 1 Cor. 1:8; 15:24), he is referring to the end of the present world order, but he also believes that at “the end” another world order will begin.  He calls this eschatological world order “the Dominion of God.”  In short, when Paul speaks of “the end” he is not referring to the “end of the world” in the sense of complete destruction and termination of the earth and universe or the end of all human life or relationships.” (Jesus, Paul and the End of the World, IL: Intervarsity Press, 1992, p. 166)

3) “Paul uses eschatological language metaphorically, not literally.  He is not talking about a literal meeting of Jesus in the sky or a literal end of the world.  His eschatological language actually indicates the imminence of various historical crises that faced early Judaism.  In short, this is language about the end of a particular world, a particular culture, not the end of the space-time continuum.” (The Paul Quest: The Renewed Search for the Jew of Tarsus, p. 137)

How are you misrepresented?    These are very relevant quotes for a study archive on the nature and timing of the Parousia, and are quoted exactly as found.  Perhaps because the title of the page is “Second Coming of Christ” as opposed to “Return of Christ”?  It appears that you see a “return of Christ” in AD70 and the “Second Coming of Christ” in the future?   If not, was Paul wrong to use parousia to speak of Christ personally?   Also, how do you explain that the eschatology of Paul on the coming of Chirst refers to historical crises long past, and yet state above that “I certainly do not think the second coming of Jesus has already happened”?  Thanks!

Date: 25 Dec 2004
Time: 12:11:15

You have it correct about the Second Coming having already happened. Ancient Records confirm this with literal fulfillment recorded by “His Other Sheep” that He said He had to visit when He ascended into the Heavens. The Original Book of Mormon (NOT used by any religion-altered by masonic evil LDS men with the 2nd printing)gives the account of Jesus after His Resurrection prophetically Descending from the Heavens and visiting His “other sheep.” At the time of His death ALL over the world (not just in Jerusalem) there was darkness, earthquakes, major earth destruction for 3 days. Then the Savior descended from the Heavens in Power and Great Glory and showed his wounds to the people of the Ancient Americas who knew prophetically about Him from their prophets descended from 2 families called by God to leave Jerusalem before it’s destruction at the time of the prophet Jeramiah. This was the literal fulfillment of the 2nd Coming of Christ. Joseph Smith did translate ancient records given him by an Angel. However, he was also told to repent repeatedly or else he would fall. He did when he got into polygamy, masonry, took away the priesthood from women and blacks and altered the Book of Mormon changing the identity of Jesus who IS God. The Gospel of Mary gives further insight to other omissions and mistranslations by men for 6,000 years. Today is the day for the truth to come forth and corruption to be exposed. Are you willing to learn? www.mormon.citymax.com

Date: 02 Jan 2005
Time: 05:54:22

It’s interesting. I think the destruction of Jerusalem was ‘the day of the ‘Lord’ and ‘the time of Jacobs trouble’ But didn’t the Angels say at the assension -“…10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, look, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, you men of Galilee, why stand you gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like kind as you have seen him go into heaven.” [Acts 1:10-11 – KJV]

Date: 02 Oct 2005
Time: 07:00:12

I agre with the brother who said that comments should be instructional, and not just offensive, and, well said bro.

However I share the concern of the post he was correcting.
Here are some of my thoughts.

I begin with a brotherly warning that there were some in Paul’s day that said the Resurrection was past already and “overthrew the faith of some”; which [I would maintain] is the obvious result from the erroneous belief that the coming of Christ had been and gone and that we have missed it. ie. the overthrow of faith.

Please consider:
One person said:
…”pt.1 Kingdom with out end! Matt. 16:28-Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Now I am not sure about the rest of you, but I don’t remember seeing any 2000yr old disciples running around. aka~in the garden~…”

No, of course not, but brother/sister you have misunderstood the prophesy.

This prophesy is situated in all three gospels [Matthew, Mark, Luke] just prior to the ‘Mount of Transfiguration’ episode. All 3 gospel writers state the number of days between the prophesy and the Mt. of Transfiguration. [Does that not seem strange that it should be so?]

Matthew 16:28-17:1, “…after 6 days…”
Mark 9:1-2, “…after six days…”
Luke 9:27-28, “…about eight days…”

So, what is going on?
The answer is that the Transfiguration IS the fulfilment of the prophesy.

Peter James and John were the “some that would not see death before they SEE the Kingdom…”

[NB. not “enter” but ‘see’ the Kingdom]

Peter said so in so many words.
2 Peter 1:16-20
“For we have not followed cunningly devised fables when we made known unto you the POWER AND COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, but were EYEWITNESSES OF HIS MAJESTY…”
(Or he could say, “…eyewitnesses of his glory” )

He then goes on to relate how the Transfiguration was that ‘coming’.
The only Gospel writer who doesn’t give an account of the Transfiguration is John, who curiously enough, was the only gospel-writer who was actually there, and he put it like this:
John1:14–
“And the word was made flesh, and dwelt amongst us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.”
Please note the link between the Father’s words on the mount,”this is my beloved Son”, and John’s phrase, “the glory as of the only begotten of the Father”. Clearly the Transfiguration was in John’s mind here. Especially so since Jesus said that he would come, “…in the glory of his Father…” which was exactly what happened on the mount. His face did shine as the sun. Matt 17.
Paul says in 2 Corinthians chapter 3 that we shall behold the “glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ”

So truly ‘some standing here’ [Peter, James and John] didn’t see death until they saw [not entered] the Kingdom of God and some did see death before they entered the Kingdom [The rest of the disciples.]
Since Christ’s only audience to the prophesy was the disciples, Mt 16:21-28, obviously he meant that some of the disciples would, and some would not taste of death till they saw it.

So you see it has nothing to do with Jerusalem and it’s fall at all.
Why would the saints in Thesalonica worry about the ‘day of Christ coming’ in 2 Thes 2:1– since the destruction of Jerusalem would mean nothing to them.
It is a future event I believe and I look forward to the catching away of the saints in the much-maligned-Rapture.

Kind regards, Ben.

Date: 04 Dec 2005
Time: 15:57:57

i’VE been doing a study on Matthew 24 that originally started out as a study on the atonement. I’ve come to some very interesting conclusions as to the “return of Christ” and I’m hoping to find some people who know a little bit more about the greek than I do to bounce my ideas off of. I’m coming more and more to the conclusion that things written about in Matt 24 and 2 Thess had to do with events that occured as part of the atonement. The “man of sin” – “son of perdition” is said to be Judas in John 17:12. I also find that a lot of this language has contexts in it that state the event is occuring while the speaker of the passage (Jesus or Paul in these two examples) is speaking. The “paronousa” (how ever it’s spelled) I’m coming to the conclusion has to do more with the resurrection and the pouring out of the Holy Spirit (for where ever two or more are gathered in his name he is there (or “present” – although I know that this is not the same Greek word) amonge us. I’d be interested i
Please e-mail me at Naadah@aol.com

Date: 23 Dec 2005
Time: 12:35:59

Your quotation by Barnes is dishonest. and should be removed.  Barnes sees AD70 as a foreshadowing of the Lord’s return in Glory and power.  He says re Matt 24:30 The Lord Jesus coming to judgment…This word glory here means the visible display of honour and majesty..”  That did not happen in AD70

[Look above.. Barnes wrote: “Power, manifest in the destruction of Jerusalem,”  Wouldn’t you agree that the utter destruction of the enemies of Christ and the persecutors of the Church could be understood as revealing the power of Christ?  And is that not an event seen by the whole world?

It is true that Barnes made a carbon copy application of the passages to the future, but that is obviously done because he just assumed it to be so, and he does not support this method of interpretation with any scripture.. Instead of the either/or choice he presents in 24:27, he is more comfortable choosing both!  Therefore, it is quite important that Barnes applies the “primary” application of the coming of the son of man to the fall of Jerusalem. Thanks for posting!  Todd]

Date: 24 May 2006
Time: 23:34:20

I just want to point out a little problem I have with end time teaching…It states that there still is a judgement coming…WHAT WAS THE CROSS FOR??? If there still is a judgement coming then the cross had no real purpose! The whole part about Jesus doesn’t remember your sins must be false then!!! And by the way judgement was a part of law…hmm…we are in grace…grace I say. We don’t sacrifice to roll our sins forward they are forgiven, So that whole I will stand before God to hear all I ever did is false…grace kinda made him forget! Hey, since Abraham, Moses and those guys from the law times maybe when Christ died…and all sin was now able to be forgiven…maybe then they who died under law stood before a judgement throne…and were accounted worthy by their acts of law…you know about the same time Christ said it is finished and accomplished everything he ever needed to do…his last act…because it was finished…the end of the 6th day of creation…as he entered into his rest.

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