“Because of their understanding of Old Testament prophecy, the disciples knew that Jesus fit the TIMING of when the Messiah should come.”
It appears this is in reference to his first coming (the reference to OT prophecy). If so, where do we get this notion that the disciples expected it in their day based on OT prophecy? Simeon may have been given a direct vision, but by all other indicators (e.g. prophecies about a Messiah coming at the end of exile, with the rebuilding of the city, at the establishment of the 2nd temple, with the ascension of Joshua and Zerubbabel, or with the cleansing of the 2nd temple after Antiochus IV’s death), the coming of the Messiah was quite late, delayed by hundreds of years.
Wow Riley! I just watched it for the second time. There certainly is a lot of info packed in this little movie presentation. I am assuming that you took a Power Point presentation that you created and used somewhere and made this production. I love the way you put it all together, the visuals, the transitions, and especially the content. Then to top it off, the music just makes it a pleasure to watch. I am only 2-3 years into my journey into preterism, but this slide presentation looks like it could really open the eyes of a lot of people in an extended group presentation. Maybe I will find a way to link it to my new site: truthinliving.net. after I announce it. Thank you for sharing it! Blessings Rob
Hello Riley, I don’t know what happened to my first post on this video, maybe I forgot to click “post comment”, but it disappeared, so I will try again. I thought this video was excellent. I am assuming that you put it together as a Power Point originally and then later on made the video presentation. The slides, transitions, music, it was all very well put together. My only thought was that there were times that I would have wished it were slower for the sake of comprehension, but it drove the point home very well. Thank you for taking the time to put it together. Rob Pike
Hi Riley – I can’t see your video. It says that it is “not available in your country.” I’m in Maine, yes, but still within the contiguous US of A! Is there another way to access it?
Riley, once again your work shines with scholarly brilliance, yet it is entirely layman-friendly and spot ON! I am interested to know if you have a citation for a statement you made on the slide @ 0:20-0:30 in your presentation. You said: “These transitional “Days of Messiah” were expected by some Rabbis to be a 40 year gradual Transition period between the two Old and New Covenants.” Also, is that term “Days of Messiah” found mainly in Rabbinic materials or some other source?
Thanks for such useful and insightful Covenant Eschatology material!!
Hi KC! Thank you so much! Yes I do have a citation for that quote. I originally read it in an article by Ed Stevens a long time ago. I’ll try to look it up for you, otherwise you could email him about it too.
Thanks Riley, if you find it, let me know. In the meantime, I’ll see if Ed can provide it. I am so interested in anything that demonstrates understanding about the Hebrew perspectives of what they were expecting about Messiah and how they viewed the Jerusalem temple and related types and shadows. I have had conversations with professing Messianic Jewish people who claim to accept Christ, but who also like to pretend that Torah is still in full force and effect. One man I spoke with recently was very knowledgeable and articulate concerning his beliefs and demonstrated reasonable knowledge of Hebraic history, yet refused to accept that the 1st century Hebrews considered “Heaven and Earth” to represent anything to do with the Temple, let alone AD70. Thanks again for your work!!
Josephus was a first century jewish writer and he is the most famous extra biblical writer to demonstrate that a first century jewish certainly consisted the Temple to be heaven, earth and sea.
Also do a study of the bible itself! It’s the best example that shows this clearly.
I plan to publish more in these exact questions that you address here. And may already have some up on my site if you look around. There are great answers from a Preterist perspective to answer your friends doubts! Keep reading! It just gets better. I also suggest the book “Beyond Creation Science” by Martin and Vaughn to help put some morepieces together
Without doubt, those are certainly some of the best possible sources. However, modern Jewish people might be prone to discrediting anything other than original, non-Christian Hebrew writings. I am interested specifically in citing Hebrew rabbinical sources which may yield insights as to how non-Christian Hebrew leadership would have regarded the Temple and how they understood the symbology and typologies involved. I think its important to be able to document irrefutably that the Hebrews themselves understood, in no uncertain terms, exactly what Jesus was saying when he spoke of things like “Heaven and Earth” passing away and his “coming on the clouds.”
Incidentally, can you recommend some good resources on learning more about historic understanding of Hebrew idioms? This is a new area of study for me since coming to a CE view in the last few years and I don’t have direct access to many Hebrew source materials. I really don’t know where to begin and hope to avoid wading through useless tomes. Thanks again, Riley!
Ok found one for you. Go to the site: anewdaydawning.com and read the article on “Heaven and Earth” there. He quotes the Hebrew sources about that term, including Josephus, that you are looking for!
Riley, just so you know, Ed most certainly remembered the article and his original source. It was from his article “What the Rabbis Said about the Milleninium” and his source was Abraham Cohen’s book “Everyman’s Talmud,” p. 356 1949. He sent me pdf’s on the article and much more. VERY helpful! My thanks both to you and Ed Stevens!!
Dear Riley, From start to finish, your production is simply fantastic. It is good to live on this side of the Parousia! Many blessings to you. Fran Lewis
Hello Riley, Just read the film. Very well done. I believed this 25 years ago and I don’t understand why the pastors can not get this teaching in their Spirit. In a way I do know why. God bless you and your family. In Jesus name
Charles
Riley- I am currently preaching through the Book of Revelation (with a preterist view) and spent weeks in Matthew 24 setting the Olivet Discourse as major context for Revelation. Attributing “heavens and earth” to the Temple and Israel was thus far one of the more difficult aspects for our people to take in. I found your site as I have been searching for as many references to this as possible to reinforce that point. Thank you for your work and presentation.
I am 3 months into my “preterist journey” and I found this presentation outstanding, revealing to me that there is so much I have yet to learn…. and un-learn. Thanks for your labor in the Lord’s work.
David, you are so very welcome! And welcome to the other side! It’s an awesome journey. I hope some of what I’ve collected and written can be of help and interest to you along the way. You’ve already been given a great gift of insight. Grace and peace to you.
let you know that Olivet Discourse Movie Exp no work and waiting loading long
thanks Haviv
final works thanks and amen wonderful smile
Thank Haviv, what interests you about the Olivet Doscourse? How did you get here to my site?
That was some rad. Thanks.
Nice to see something concise on the topic and not be required to read a thousand pages.
Riley, I can’t even get past the opening slides:
“Because of their understanding of Old Testament prophecy, the disciples knew that Jesus fit the TIMING of when the Messiah should come.”
It appears this is in reference to his first coming (the reference to OT prophecy). If so, where do we get this notion that the disciples expected it in their day based on OT prophecy? Simeon may have been given a direct vision, but by all other indicators (e.g. prophecies about a Messiah coming at the end of exile, with the rebuilding of the city, at the establishment of the 2nd temple, with the ascension of Joshua and Zerubbabel, or with the cleansing of the 2nd temple after Antiochus IV’s death), the coming of the Messiah was quite late, delayed by hundreds of years.
I’m sure I’m blanking on something. Thanks!
James Metzger
Video Response:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um3KUg02SY0
:
Wow Riley! I just watched it for the second time. There certainly is a lot of info packed in this little movie presentation. I am assuming that you took a Power Point presentation that you created and used somewhere and made this production. I love the way you put it all together, the visuals, the transitions, and especially the content. Then to top it off, the music just makes it a pleasure to watch. I am only 2-3 years into my journey into preterism, but this slide presentation looks like it could really open the eyes of a lot of people in an extended group presentation. Maybe I will find a way to link it to my new site: truthinliving.net. after I announce it. Thank you for sharing it! Blessings Rob
Hello Riley, I don’t know what happened to my first post on this video, maybe I forgot to click “post comment”, but it disappeared, so I will try again. I thought this video was excellent. I am assuming that you put it together as a Power Point originally and then later on made the video presentation. The slides, transitions, music, it was all very well put together. My only thought was that there were times that I would have wished it were slower for the sake of comprehension, but it drove the point home very well. Thank you for taking the time to put it together. Rob Pike
could you please repost the olivet discourse movie without the music on youtube.
Hi Riley – I can’t see your video. It says that it is “not available in your country.” I’m in Maine, yes, but still within the contiguous US of A! Is there another way to access it?
Youve blessed my heart with your work from 2 years ago..This video ROCKS MY WORLD!!! Great job..
Riley, once again your work shines with scholarly brilliance, yet it is entirely layman-friendly and spot ON! I am interested to know if you have a citation for a statement you made on the slide @ 0:20-0:30 in your presentation. You said: “These transitional “Days of Messiah” were expected by some Rabbis to be a 40 year gradual Transition period between the two Old and New Covenants.” Also, is that term “Days of Messiah” found mainly in Rabbinic materials or some other source?
Thanks for such useful and insightful Covenant Eschatology material!!
Hi KC! Thank you so much! Yes I do have a citation for that quote. I originally read it in an article by Ed Stevens a long time ago. I’ll try to look it up for you, otherwise you could email him about it too.
Thanks Riley, if you find it, let me know. In the meantime, I’ll see if Ed can provide it. I am so interested in anything that demonstrates understanding about the Hebrew perspectives of what they were expecting about Messiah and how they viewed the Jerusalem temple and related types and shadows. I have had conversations with professing Messianic Jewish people who claim to accept Christ, but who also like to pretend that Torah is still in full force and effect. One man I spoke with recently was very knowledgeable and articulate concerning his beliefs and demonstrated reasonable knowledge of Hebraic history, yet refused to accept that the 1st century Hebrews considered “Heaven and Earth” to represent anything to do with the Temple, let alone AD70. Thanks again for your work!!
Josephus was a first century jewish writer and he is the most famous extra biblical writer to demonstrate that a first century jewish certainly consisted the Temple to be heaven, earth and sea.
Also do a study of the bible itself! It’s the best example that shows this clearly.
I plan to publish more in these exact questions that you address here. And may already have some up on my site if you look around. There are great answers from a Preterist perspective to answer your friends doubts! Keep reading! It just gets better. I also suggest the book “Beyond Creation Science” by Martin and Vaughn to help put some morepieces together
Without doubt, those are certainly some of the best possible sources. However, modern Jewish people might be prone to discrediting anything other than original, non-Christian Hebrew writings. I am interested specifically in citing Hebrew rabbinical sources which may yield insights as to how non-Christian Hebrew leadership would have regarded the Temple and how they understood the symbology and typologies involved. I think its important to be able to document irrefutably that the Hebrews themselves understood, in no uncertain terms, exactly what Jesus was saying when he spoke of things like “Heaven and Earth” passing away and his “coming on the clouds.”
Incidentally, can you recommend some good resources on learning more about historic understanding of Hebrew idioms? This is a new area of study for me since coming to a CE view in the last few years and I don’t have direct access to many Hebrew source materials. I really don’t know where to begin and hope to avoid wading through useless tomes. Thanks again, Riley!
Ok found one for you. Go to the site: anewdaydawning.com and read the article on “Heaven and Earth” there. He quotes the Hebrew sources about that term, including Josephus, that you are looking for!
Thanks for the follow-up, Riley. I’ll check it out.
Riley, just so you know, Ed most certainly remembered the article and his original source. It was from his article “What the Rabbis Said about the Milleninium” and his source was Abraham Cohen’s book “Everyman’s Talmud,” p. 356 1949. He sent me pdf’s on the article and much more. VERY helpful! My thanks both to you and Ed Stevens!!
Absolutely wonderful. Most unique and easily understandable presentation on this topic that I have seen. Thank you; bless you!
Thank you Jonathan!
Thanks! Keep up work!
Thanks so much. Good work, keep it up. Ron Moseley
Dear Riley, From start to finish, your production is simply fantastic. It is good to live on this side of the Parousia! Many blessings to you. Fran Lewis
Hello Riley, Just read the film. Very well done. I believed this 25 years ago and I don’t understand why the pastors can not get this teaching in their Spirit. In a way I do know why. God bless you and your family. In Jesus name
Charles
Thank you for reaching out Charles! I’m so glad you enjoyed it. That makes all the effort worthwhile.
Thank you Charles!
Riley- I am currently preaching through the Book of Revelation (with a preterist view) and spent weeks in Matthew 24 setting the Olivet Discourse as major context for Revelation. Attributing “heavens and earth” to the Temple and Israel was thus far one of the more difficult aspects for our people to take in. I found your site as I have been searching for as many references to this as possible to reinforce that point. Thank you for your work and presentation.
You are so welcome Jeremy! Congrats on your courage to tackle this challenging topic and educate your congregation! They are lucky to have you.
I am 3 months into my “preterist journey” and I found this presentation outstanding, revealing to me that there is so much I have yet to learn…. and un-learn. Thanks for your labor in the Lord’s work.
David, you are so very welcome! And welcome to the other side! It’s an awesome journey. I hope some of what I’ve collected and written can be of help and interest to you along the way. You’ve already been given a great gift of insight. Grace and peace to you.